Forced Holiday In Decemeber..need clarification?

Im in UK - I have staff joining us next week we give 20 days holiday - 8 public holidays thats all that is in the contract.. We plan not to work 4 working days 24, 27,28,31 Dec... SO i will shut up for whole xmas period as its so quiet..but i dont want to pay out 4 days wages As they have not accrued any holiday they have just started can i just offer to pay them the working days they work from tommorow and the 4 days take as unpaid holiday - there argument is we want to work so why are you forcing me to take unpaid leave .... what shall i do...

it is your fault starting them at this time of the year

What they should do is.... keep back 2 days from your AHE (Annaul Holiday Entitlement) to cover this , you are still paid through your holiday days. I've hardly heard of someone getting 'unpaid' leave unless they have agreed to it beforehand.

just do what you were going to do.THIS IS A NORMAL SITUATION.Most companies close over the xmas period.Your normal staff will of course be payed their entitlement of accrued holliday pay,but new starters have no entitlement to paid time off yet.You could always give them a little something as a christmas box.You cannot borrow holliday entitlement from next years entitlement to cover it by the way.

pay up, goodwill to all men, etc...
do you really want your new staff to think you're a mean old b****rd?

If you are enforcing the holiday you have to pay them, period.

I`m starting a new job soon and the company closes for a week at xmas, so next year i will have to use some of my annual leave to cover it. It`s not illegal but maybe you should get some advice on contracts for your employees - ACAS are very good.

Can i put this answer from the perspective of someone whose small company shuts over the xmas period......I would love to work and am stressing big time about the money situation as it is basically no work no money. I know I have no holiday entitlement to cover the time off and if you look at it from your employees point of view it is pretty dire to not get any money over the holiday week. Maybe if you gave them advance holiday pay or promised to pay them when they got back. My husband used to get a xmas bonus then his holiday pay when he returned to work.
I know it costs you money but I bet you are in a more comfortable financial position than those beneath you.
Merry Christmas

Is that 20 days + 8 public hols? i.e 28 days or just 20 days? I only ask because the legal minimum is now 24 days.

Also I would suggest that you review your contracts asap as they are probably open to a legal challenge if that is "all that is in the contract".

With regard to your question, you cannot force them to take UNPAID leave, this is illegal.
You can however make them take some PAID leave from their legal entitlement over the xmas period so long as you have a sound business reason or doing so... you would need to give legal notice of this request, which is twice as long as the time you want them to take off, it would however be better, fairer and less legally tricky to put this in your contract in the first place and be open with your employees.
If you attempt to force a worker to take unpaid leave you are acting illegally and open to legal action against you.

I would also suggest not forcing anyone to do anything as you will find it only has a negative business impact in the end!

I am afraid you cannot force the holiday. They are entitled to work the time unless you specified it in their letter of job offer or their contract that there would be a 4 day period of unpaid leave. If you did not do this then you are stuck. Can you take the opportunity to get them to work and do basic housekeeping jobs - tidying the office, the filing system etc this may force some of them to take leave although be careful you are not unreasonable in what you ask them to do eg office admin is fine - painting the walls is not. It is unclear if your 20 days includes your public holidays but if they do and you force them to take the 4 days then you breach the European law which means they need to have regular holidays throughout the year. If they are new staff can the time not be used for extra training etc - if not I am afraid you need to pay them - sorry

You have to pay the statutory holiday anyway and tell them that you will pay them ,but this come from their annual holiday entailment. This way you have their goodwill in stead of having their resentment. If you are tight, then tell them to start in Jan, then you don't have to pay anyhting.